US - Market Direction 01 (May 08 - Jul 08)

Re: US - Market Direction

Postby learn2win » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:31 pm

As a trend follower, losing money in a whipsawing market to me is not worth it and I would have learn nothing from it. :lol: like the chinese saying, throw money into yellow water river.

below is a post by jest extracted from the CNA forum some time back, I am in a losing streak for the past few trades and this would be the choppy whipsawing market in which trend followers like me and MM feared most.

Time to drink a cup of tea, eat a Bao. :P

-------------

Every system is create to have an edge...ie increases the probability of winning, if not every entry would have been considered a profusely random entry.

With an increased probability of winning, its further coupled with position sizing so as to avoid the trader from being knocked out too early in the game and this is where the real problem lies...many got knocked out EARLY, even before they managed to learn anything from the market...the lose all witrh ZERO experience.

Also to add, the systems winning ratio, will have to depend on 1 big factor...MARKET BEHAVIOUR. If you have a system that follows trend....its normal to constantly show loser in a whippy market. and if your system thrives on swing reversals, more likely you will be trended to poverty by the market, on a trending period. I've you use both, i'd say that trader is one confused kid, coz he will never know when the market is really trending or whipping.

Going forward, it'll be foolish for a person to use a system that does not give winners, it shows a lack of understanding, backtesting and forward testing in the users part.

I will tend to agree that when a trader turns purely mechanical, they psychology will in turn fall into place, but thats not usually the case....esp with new traders, heck even some old timers fall into this trap at times.

The statement above needs factual proof. Like i mentioned before, when does a system carry an edge? It all depends on market behaviour and its alignment to the systems identity at that PERIOD. As an experience trader, i am sure you have seen the times when your system lose the edge, even up to a string of 10-20 in a row.

Personally i trade on nothing more than naked chart, well proly some trendlines an MA for SR reference but thats really just it, most of the time i track daily prices to get a 'feel' of the trend. Different people find different ways to win in the market, mine does not require an extensively rigid set of rules, i still win...and lose.

regards
jest
Guard Thy Treasure from Losses - The Fourth Cure for a Lean Purse - George Clason
User avatar
learn2win
Coolie
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: US - Market Direction

Postby kennynah » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:51 pm

learn2win wrote: I am in a losing streak for the past few trades and this would be the choppy whipsawing market in which trend followers like me and MM feared most.

Time to drink a cup of tea, eat a Bao. :P


l2w : sorry to hear of your recent plight... but you are definitely spot on that whipsawing markets can take the zest out of any trader.... wish you the best going forward...thanks for the post.
Options Strategies & Discussions .(Trading Discipline : The Science of Constantly Acting on Knowledge Consistently - kennynah).Investment Strategies & Ideas

Image..................................................................<A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control-Proverbs 29:11>.................................................................Image
User avatar
kennynah
Lord of the Lew Lian
 
Posts: 14201
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 2:00 am
Location: everywhere.. and nowhere..

Re: US - Market Direction

Postby learn2win » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:00 pm

K,

Thanks for your consolation. :) But losing is part of the game, nobody like losing, but cutting losses enable me to fight another day.
Guard Thy Treasure from Losses - The Fourth Cure for a Lean Purse - George Clason
User avatar
learn2win
Coolie
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: US - Market Direction

Postby kennynah » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:19 pm

VXN - cousin of VIX

the lesser known cousin of the VIX, known as the VXN, is also a CBOE indicator measuring the Implied Volatility of Nazdq 100 options, particularly, the popular NDX Options...

i bring this up, partly bcos Nazdaq is among the healthiest of the 3 major charts..and it's critical we try to assess its state of health going forward...

your TA comments are always welcome...

this is how it looks like now....

Image
Options Strategies & Discussions .(Trading Discipline : The Science of Constantly Acting on Knowledge Consistently - kennynah).Investment Strategies & Ideas

Image..................................................................<A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control-Proverbs 29:11>.................................................................Image
User avatar
kennynah
Lord of the Lew Lian
 
Posts: 14201
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 2:00 am
Location: everywhere.. and nowhere..

Re: US - Market Direction

Postby kennynah » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:48 pm

9 Jun 08 Monday - Pre-market Trade Thoughts (put heading ok, better comply with instructions....by the warlords of this forum)

Going into Monday...after a gigantic selloff of all indexes last Fri, we must tread cautiously... in particular, the fact that there seemed to be no short covering towards the end of Fri, spells danger for Shorts. I repeat my boring stuff...nothing drops without a bounce, unless it is mucus...even so, there is bounce, except it is at the molecular level, and so, not visible to the naked eye, unless we employ a microscope.

nevertheless, i repost this picture, so that the fact is drilled in.... the Diarrhea portion to be given specific attention; ie past 2am Fri index movement... the fact that a "relieve bounce" could possibly happen on Monday....or perhaps a sideways consolidation of sorts...(who knows for sure...)

Image



I like to highlight a few key developments on going at this juncture (635pm singapore time)

a) Oil is showing signs of weakness and was reported this afternoon that hedge funds are selling into Oil high price

b) eur/usd is seen as reaching recent top; Monday's intraday high of 1.5842 (historical high being at ~1.6)


finally some commentaries for those of us, preparing our mentalselves for the battle ahead... "all hands, battle station"

************

"With the S&P 500 in 'no man's land,' the Dow still below major resistance levels, and the Nasdaq trying to break out to a new intermediate-term high, the major indices are obviously out of sync with one another. Whenever this occurs, trading typically becomes whippy and indecisive." The subsequent action that followed that day certainly proved our expectation of indecision!

Last Thursday, stocks gapped higher on the open, then built on their gains throughout the session, but the exact opposite scenario occurred on Friday. Instead, the broad market opened lower, then continued trending down throughout until the closing bell. When the dust settled, the major indices had followed up Thursday's impressive average gains of 2% by plunging approximately 3% on Friday.

The S&P 500 and Dow Jones Industrial Average suffered identical losses of 3.1%, as the Nasdaq Composite tumbled 3.0%. Even the small-cap Russell 2000, which had been showing relative strength to the broad market, fell 3.0%. The S&P Midcap 400 lost "only" 2.6%. Inverse of the previous day's closing action, all the main stock market indexes finished at their intraday lows.

Total volume in the NYSE surged 17% above the prior day's level, causing the S&P 500 to register a bearish "distribution day." Trading in the NYSE rose to its highest level since April 1 of this year, but that's obviously negative considering the higher turnover correlated with massive losses.

Institutional selling in the Nasdaq, however, was less prevalent. Turnover in the tech-heavy Nasdaq eased 1%. Nevertheless, market internals were atrocious across the board. In the NYSE, declining volume crushed advancing volume by a margin of nearly 12 to 1. The Nasdaq adv/dec volume ratio was negative by approximately 9 to 1.

The S&P 500 finally joined the Dow Jones Industrials by making a "lower low" on its daily chart. This occurred when last Friday's sell-off shoved the S&P below support of its prior lows from May.

In a much more precarious position, the Dow Jones Industrial Average slid to new lows within its intermediate-term downtrend. Showing relative weakness within the stock market, recall that the Dow had already broken down below its May lows several days ahead of the S&P 500. Perhaps most concerning about the Dow is that last Friday's pounding caused the index to lose support of its 61.8% Fibonacci retracement from the March 2008 low to May 2008 high.

In uptrends, a pullback to the 61.8% retracement level is typically considered the "last line of defense" that prevents a complete reversal back to the lows. Unless the Dow suddenly roars back today, odds are now good the index will soon lead the rest of the main stock market indexes in testing its 52-week low.

The break of the 61.8% Fibonacci retracement on the Dow's daily chart is super bad news for bulls. Also, note the double top that caused the Dow to instantly reverse after running into its 200-day MA twice last month. (you'll need to go back to my earlier post on Sat morning at 530am) to see the technicals.

The Nasdaq Composite, which closed at a new five-month high just two days ago, has already fallen back below both its 20 and 200-day moving averages. It also closed just a tad below its three-month uptrend line, but not by a wide enough margin to declare a clean break of trendline support.

Still, despite last Friday's nasty reversal, the Nasdaq continues to show relative strength and a much stronger chart pattern than both the S&P and Dow. Specifically, it's still well above its 50-day MA, as well as its prior lows from last month. If the stock market dazzles us with another whipsaw move back up, the Nasdaq is still the place to be.

Last Friday's sell-off means the broad market trends are now "down" for all three timeframes: near-term, intermediate-term, and long-term. A pattern of "lower highs" and "lower highs" is now prevalent in each of those timeframes, though the Nasdaq the near and intermediate-term trends of the Nasdaq might be the exception. In the big picture, don't forget that stocks have been in a primary downtrend since last October. We must therefore assume the recent March through May rally was merely a counter-trend bounce from "oversold" conditions.

Keep those stops in place and remember to trade what you see, not what you think!

*******

with this in mind....i wish you all HUat HUat in the coming week.... let's the games begin (oh well, in 2.45hrs time)
Options Strategies & Discussions .(Trading Discipline : The Science of Constantly Acting on Knowledge Consistently - kennynah).Investment Strategies & Ideas

Image..................................................................<A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control-Proverbs 29:11>.................................................................Image
User avatar
kennynah
Lord of the Lew Lian
 
Posts: 14201
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 2:00 am
Location: everywhere.. and nowhere..

Re: US - Market Direction

Postby kennynah » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:12 am

Post Market - 9June08 Review

all indexes Volume were lower than Fri's

DOW up 70 points <<< relieve bounce ?
SP500 up 1 point

Nazdaq down 15 points


it appears, to be indecision from index movements


SP500 - Selling Slowed
Image


Nazdaq - Model Student Playing Truant

Image
Options Strategies & Discussions .(Trading Discipline : The Science of Constantly Acting on Knowledge Consistently - kennynah).Investment Strategies & Ideas

Image..................................................................<A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control-Proverbs 29:11>.................................................................Image
User avatar
kennynah
Lord of the Lew Lian
 
Posts: 14201
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 2:00 am
Location: everywhere.. and nowhere..

Re: US - Market Direction

Postby millionairemind » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:35 am

Just a quick note to compliment my DA GE's post above.

Nasdaq has undercut its recent low of 2450. All bets are off.

Image

What I am seeing here is a major divergence at the start of a correction on May 22... then Nasdaq pushing higher and pulling the other 3 indices with it.

With the undercutting of recent lows, Nasdaq officially ends its rally attempt and now back in correction mode.

Until we see a succcessful rally attempt by anyone of the indices, all bets are off and chances of downturn are higher than upturn.

Market has been whipsawing.

Just be careful out there... I am back in full cash. This is just my strategy to deal with downturn or correction. Not a buy/selll recommendation. After I have a chance to think it thro' during my visit to the Jurong Bird Park today, I might short or just stay out :)

Yours will definitely be different. As long as it works for you, helps you to minimize losses and maximize gains, do continue to use it.

Like my Da Ge K likes to say, Left hand Can, right hand oso can :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

NYSE short interest ratio at 13.95. Still around 5 year high of 14.3. Do note that during the bloodletting exercise in January, the NYSE short interest ratio was only 10. Lets see if any1 of the market indices attempts to rally.

A markt falls faster than it rises cos' Fear is a stronger emotion than Greed.

Be careful out there. ;)
"If a speculator is correct half of the time, he is hitting a good average. Even being right 3 or 4 times out of 10 should yield a person a fortune if he has the sense to cut his losses quickly on the ventures where he has been wrong" - Bernard Baruch

Disclaimer - The author may at times own some of the stocks mentioned in this forum. All discussions are NOT to be construed as buy/sell recommendations. Readers are advised to do their own research and analysis.
User avatar
millionairemind
Big Boss
 
Posts: 7776
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 8:50 am
Location: The Matrix

Re: US - Market Direction

Postby Aspellian » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:42 am

Personally, I think that the bounce from Ah Dow is just a reflex action, it may bounce lower and lower. Naz used to pull up the rest but now it didnt bounce as expected, so my alarm bells are now ringing out loud. Dun be tricked thinking that STI today will do well. I will continue to sit in those excess funds that i divested recently, while I research on the gems to buy.

Beginning to appreciate the logic of buy low, sell high in turbulent markets. But i buy stocks which I am prepared to hold. In the event that my "timing" is off, i may hold these stocks (with fundamentals intact).

Awaiting the dramas to unfold.

PROMISE, PASSION, PEACE, POWER, PURPOSE, PLAN, PATIENCE, PERSEVERANCE, PROTECTION
DELIGHT, DISCIPLINE, DILIGENT, DETERMINATION, DESIRE

"Its not whether you're right or wrong thats important, but how much money you make when you're right and how much you lose when you're wrong." - Warren Buffet
User avatar
Aspellian
Boss' Right Hand Person
 
Posts: 1491
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 8:53 am

Re: US - Market Direction

Postby kennynah » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:16 pm

MM : u have the vision of an owl. u r spot on to say that yesterday Naz's low was lower, than mid-May's low, the day the mini-rally started.... can always count on u to be meticulous and observant...

by the way, you should click on the chart so that the details are clearer, u will see that the Naz index ended up closing higher than the mid-May low. still, it did try to go lower than mid-May's low.

aspellian : thanks for your inputs.

overall, i have alot lesser to say and i also posted later...bcos... i stared at the charts, and stared again...there just wasnt anything too obvious to me...at this juncture...
Options Strategies & Discussions .(Trading Discipline : The Science of Constantly Acting on Knowledge Consistently - kennynah).Investment Strategies & Ideas

Image..................................................................<A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control-Proverbs 29:11>.................................................................Image
User avatar
kennynah
Lord of the Lew Lian
 
Posts: 14201
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 2:00 am
Location: everywhere.. and nowhere..

Re: US - Market Direction

Postby kennynah » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:19 pm

10jun08 720pm singapore - PreMarket Thoughts.

Image


this chart is similar for DOW index intraday movement as well...

however, Nazdaq movement was a little more bearish yesterday.... as evident by the -ve 15 points closing yesterday
Options Strategies & Discussions .(Trading Discipline : The Science of Constantly Acting on Knowledge Consistently - kennynah).Investment Strategies & Ideas

Image..................................................................<A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control-Proverbs 29:11>.................................................................Image
User avatar
kennynah
Lord of the Lew Lian
 
Posts: 14201
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 2:00 am
Location: everywhere.. and nowhere..

PreviousNext

Return to Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests